Interview with Mr. Sam Crispin, MRICS,
Senior Director Regional Sustainability & ESG, Asia Pacific, Savills
Sam Crispin leads Savills sustainability and ESG internal reporting and external consultancy in the Asia-Pacific region. He has more than 25 years’ experience in city development in mainland China including a range of ESG-related topics such as sponge cities, healthcare and education projects.
His involvement in sustainability dates from 1992 when his Bachelor’s Degree dissertation covered the environmental and social costs and benefits of the Three Gorges Dam, the world’s biggest hydropower project. He is a Chartered Surveyor and has a Master’s Degree in Corporate Environmental Governance from the University of Hong Kong.
SpaChina has rarely if ever interviewed experts outside the area of hospitality, wellness, fitness and beauty, but this interview with Mr. Sam Crispin touches on core factors related to the future of our industry, based on his rich experience in China’s real estate industry, including his views on sustainable lifestyles.
When did you first come to mainland China? What impression did you have of the overall living environment at that time?
My first visit was back in 1988 before I spoke any Chinese. I undertook a thirty-day backpacking trip. The overall impression was the warmth and kindness of the Chinese people. Of course there were difficulties getting train tickets and hotel rooms without advance booking, but the system functioned and foreign visitors were treated very well. There were a few glimpses into living conditions but actually I was quite impressed with the way homes functioned and the way people generally seemed to manage with very little. In particular I remember being invited into a village home in rural Guangxi in August 1988 towards the end of my trip, I enjoyed one of the simplest and tastiest meals of my life. Over the years since then, this kind of hospitality has been repeated many times over.
On that first trip I took the cruise from Chongqing through the Three Gorges to Yichang. That later inspired me to write my undergraduate dissertation on the environmental and socials costs and benefits of the then proposed Three Gorges Dam, the largest hydropower project in the world. In a way that was an ESG report because a great deal of the content was related to governance. I completed that 30 years ago and today I am working in sustainability in ESG with a focus on the built environment.
How many years have you been working in mainland China? In these years, what kind of major changes did you see, especially in terms of the living environment?
Following my trip in 1988, I went to study Chinese full time for four years and I moved to live in Shanghai in 1994 and stayed until 2017 when I moved to Hong Kong. The living environment has changed beyond recognition for most urban residents. They have more space, better quality apartments with air conditioning. When I think back to the 1990s, when it was common to see people sleeping on the streets in summer, the difference today is unimaginable. I also remember the cooking on the streets with coal briquettes. The smell of coal was ever present. Not to mention the ‘special odour’ of Suzhou Creek. Open spaces and parks that most Chinese cities enjoy today are the icing on the cake.
About sustainable living, what is the major difference between sustainable and regular? Why is sustainable more and more stressed and rewarded?
Sustainability means not using more of resources than can be replenished. It does not have to mean a big change in lifestyle, but it may mean lots of smaller changes. Reducing the use of air conditioning and opening a window or using a fan instead, shorter showers, eating less meat and replacing it with beancurd are other examples. It does not mean never using air conditioning, not showering or becoming vegetarian. It may also mean things like landscaped areas that use native species rather than exotic ones that need extra water or other care. The emphasis on sustainability comes from the need for humans to reduce the amount of resources from the planet that are used in order to reduce emissions that are harmful to the environment and contribute to climate change.
Which countries in the world are the most advanced in sustainable lifestyles?
Actually, the China I visited in the late 1980s was very sustainable in many respects, but it wasn’t very comfortable. No one wants to suggest going backwards, but we have to move forwards to rediscover some of what we have lost. These days, China leads the way in many sustainable technologies, including electric vehicles and solar power. In terms of the regulatory environment, the European Union is leading the way. In power generation, Iceland and New Zealand are now 85% and 80% respectively reliant on renewable energy.
What kind of sustainable solutions will be included in future property development?
Property is very carbon intensive with both embedded carbon from the building materials and the operational carbon from day-to-day use. In Hong Kong, for example, building-related energy consumption accounts for 90% of total energy used in the city.
For existing commercial buildings, the most important aspect is reducing energy consumption and in many cases 20-30% savings can be made by implementing some basic changes such as LED lighting and optimising machinery efficiency. Many buildings in China have already done this. The next stage is green leases whereby landlord and tenant work together to make further savings.
For residential blocks, it is very much up to the owner or occupier to make changes and they may or may not be willing to do that. Energy efficiency is best when built into housing and residents need to be helped to understand the role they can play. I know many cities like Shanghai have already adopted recycling measures which requires separation of rubbish before collection. Having appropriate facilities and dedicated storage areas in buildings makes this much easier.
What about the hospitality industry? Do you see any hotels and resorts which are focusing on the sustainable concept?
Hotels are perhaps the hardest property sector to make sustainable due to the operations. Hospitality is by its nature short-term while sustainability is longer term, but progress has been made. Sensors in rooms can help monitor energy use and adjust lighting and air conditioning when no one is present. Waste reduction is another area, and again, hotels in China have made changes to help manage this. Another area is in hotel kitchens where food waste can be reduced by adapting menus and on-site composting so that less compostable waste ends up in landfill. Another kitchen area is collection of cooking oil for recycling into bio diesel, and in some countries fossil fuel-free kitchens have been introduced. It’s important to reduce the frequency of washing sheets and towels to save water and detergent, and to use environmentally friendly materials on all consumables as much as possible. It’s difficult to imagine wok-based cooking on an electric hob, but new technology is making all sorts of things possible.
When a hotel is at the stage of pre-planning or design, it is easier to add the concept of sustainability into the mix. For example, energy-saving design can reduce energy consumption. If it is a resort on an island, it can consider installing its own water circulation system. Of course, these initial investments are larger than for ordinary hotels and resorts, but in the long run, they are worthwhile.
What kind of future direction would you like to see for the real-estate sector, especially hotel and resort industry related real-estate?
It is important to remember that hotels and resorts provide valuable jobs for local communities, often in areas where well-paid jobs are scarce. They also help employees develop essential knowledge and skills for other parts of the service sector. I have often employed people who started their working life on a reception desk or opening doors for guests. If you have those basic service instincts you are in a good place for your future career. As a student, I worked as a cleaner for several months.
Helping guests understand the need for sustainability and encouraging them to change their behaviour is probably the most important thing hotels can do beyond implementing their own operational efficiencies. The multiplier effect of this is that guests may take those lessons home with them. The difficulty, of course, is that guests have certain expectations and requirements when they are spending a lot of money to stay in a hotel and may not appreciate being told what they can and cannot do. Perhaps working with local NGOs or social enterprises may be part of the solution for things like soap recycling, then this can be turned into a positive external message for the hotel or resort.
